Insurance: Is there a light at the end of the tunnel.

"djmt1" (djmt1) 08/29/2014 at 17:58 • Filed to: Insurance, Type R, U Wot M8

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Can anyone else in the UK let me know if their insurance policy got significantly better in the second year, i.e not thousands of pounds.

Yup I considering a Civic Type R. No matter what car I pick I'll be paying between £1,500-£3,000 with regards to insurance, might as well go for a fast one. Thanks goodness for VTEC and the way it avoids turbo tax.

KirkyV > djmt1 08/29/2014 at 18:09

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Year 1: £2,800

Year 2: £800

Yeah, it's gonna get better. Still, I'm not sure how you'll manage on that Type R—I had quotes in the £4000s on that sort of thing, and they still haven't dropped below £2000. If I were you, I'd get something slow but fun - 106, hint hint - pootle about in that for a few years, and then get a spicier car when you can get insurance for less than a grand.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > djmt1 08/29/2014 at 18:10

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I ran a quote on what my second year will be (I'm on my first year now) and it went from £700 to £550.

RWS Motorsport > djmt1 08/29/2014 at 18:11

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Ive now been driving for 5 and abit years, (23yo, m) and my insurance is still pretty steep (700ish on a '02 1.8 focus), but I now live in london in a fairly high risk postcode, and do quite alot of mileage. Whilst insurance does get significantly cheaper, a type R is still about 900/1000 for me. The worst of it is, tax is about £400 pa on anything interesting, and for something nice like a type r, it needs maintenance which isn't exactly cheap.

Best way to keep insurance cheap is to keep the car somewhere safe, use it for a low milage, and interestingly, fully comp with a decent excess is normally cheaper than third party. oh and im sure you've found this, but parents with a clean license as named drivers help an awful lot too.

djmt1 > RWS Motorsport 08/29/2014 at 18:15

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Thanks.

I also live London, problem is I live in the second highest risk location in the city so virtually nothing helps reduce the costs. Foe me the best option is Third party with a £750 excess. With that the insurance is £2100 for the Civic but for a 02 1.2 Corsa the insurance would be £2,400, trying to own a car in London sucks.

djmt1 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/29/2014 at 18:17

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I'm guessing you don't live in London's second highest risk location going by your first year quote. Also what is the Panda's engine capacity?

djmt1 > KirkyV 08/29/2014 at 18:19

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I'm guessing my location (second highest risk location in London) overrides the car. For example the Type R: £2100. An 02 1.2 Corsa: £2,400. Like I said no matter what I'm paying out of my arse.

KirkyV > djmt1 08/29/2014 at 18:23

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Well then, fuck it: if you can insure a Type R for less than a Corsa, then there's no reason not to get one! My advice, though, would be to use a false 'you', with an earlier birth date, on comparison websites to get a rough idea of how much you'll be paying next year.

I'm more of a nineties hot hatch guy - not to mention, kinda cheap - so I'd probably be looking at 306s, 106s, and perhaps Clio Williamses, but you can't really go wrong with an EP3 Type R.

RWS Motorsport > djmt1 08/29/2014 at 18:24

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Yep, its a bitch alright. If you havent got your heart set on a Type R, there are some 'insurance oddities' as I like to call them. Cars that a very quick, pretty damn interesting, but because they are not your typical boy racers, not horrendous to insure. for example, Mazdaspeed 3, is significantly cheaper to insure than a type r, because less boy racers own them. Or if you can find one, a Volvo 850r, preferably the estate, just because its fun, and will out accelerate a golf gti.

Your Corsa is a perfect example. Because lots of, shall we say, less than careful people own them, they are quite high risk, and hence high insurance. I started off in a 205, and the insurance was about 70% of a 106, because lets face it, its not a cool car, so most normal 17 year olds who crash every 5 minutes wouldnt be seen dead in one.

However, to answer your initial question yes, it will get cheaper as you get older. 205 was 1500 first year third party only, in Norwich so super low risk, and focus is 700 in London, in pretty high risk with more milage and commuting included.

KirkyV > RWS Motorsport 08/29/2014 at 18:27

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You had a 205 as your first car? My 106-owning self is experiencing no small amount of envy right now.

djmt1 > KirkyV 08/29/2014 at 18:28

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I wanted a 306 GTI so badly after I autocrossed one

but turbo tax killed that dream. Quote: £3,200

RWS Motorsport > KirkyV 08/29/2014 at 18:30

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ha yep. pale blue 1.1 205 xl. Was an absolutely brilliant first car to learn in. No ABS, no Power Steering, Manual Choke, 4 speed, and all for £350. learnt an awful lot about driving, and fixing old french cars with that thing.

Ended up with a huge subwoofer in the boot (of course) 6x9s in parcel shelf and where the rear doors would be (3 door car). that car was LOUD. I have since grown up and got a sensible car.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > djmt1 08/29/2014 at 18:30

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I live in a smallish town in the North East so that helps the cost. It has a 1.3 diesel.

djmt1 > RWS Motorsport 08/29/2014 at 18:33

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I couldn't find a Mazda 3 MPS to save my life. No one is selling them. I've looked at various super estate cars since to me they are just hot hatches plus viagra but they go over my total £5,000 budget. The Type R is one of those oddities alongside the S3. They both should be a lot more considering both have 200+ hp and do 0-60 in less than 7 seconds. Like you said I guess those two cars don't have negative reputations among insurance companies.

KirkyV > djmt1 08/29/2014 at 18:34

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Ouch, that's rough, and another example of how daft out insurance system can be; the 306 GTi's cheaper to insure than a Type R for me.

Still, I'm leaning more towards the 106 GTi, myself, as I just kinda like the idea of my car, but more— and it's quite a bit cheaper to insure and maintain. If it were down to looks alone, though, I'd be all over a Rallye:

djmt1 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/29/2014 at 18:43

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Hmm, I might get a Panda at £1,300 that is definitely reasonable. A good £1,200 cheaper than the Type R for both purchase and insurance, I guess the Panda isn't chavtastic enough to attract the wrong crowd and push insurance prices up.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > djmt1 08/29/2014 at 18:46

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Yeah they aren't on most peoples radar so theyre cheap to insure. The tax on mine is only £30 and got 55mpg average since I bought it too, cheap car to run.

djmt1 > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 08/29/2014 at 18:49

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I always forget Fiat and I really shoudn't but I really dislike the Punto so I tend to just blow them off. Well I have seen the error of my ways. Heck I might even give the Punto a second chance.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > djmt1 08/29/2014 at 18:54

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The punto before 2005 was pretty meh but the grande punto is reasonable. The Panda is above average for a supermini and an excellent first car. That said I do plan to upgrade to something like a Fiesta ST when I get a job.

davedave1111 > djmt1 08/31/2014 at 10:40

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Don't expect a single year's NCB to make much difference. The only vaguely cheap insurance you'll get is classic cover. You can buy a good E30 and insure it for the cost of insuring the Type R for a year.

djmt1 > davedave1111 08/31/2014 at 11:07

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RWD cars aren't happening. The insurance is just way too high and classic car insurance is bullshit with all the caveats.

Also where exactly are these good E30 packages for £2,100?

davedave1111 > djmt1 08/31/2014 at 12:09

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I don't know what caveats you're worried about, but I was quite surprised to find that I get classic quotes including sole car, commuting, a decent amount of mileage, and so-on on a car that's not all that old. I don't know how old you are - maybe you need to be 25+ or something - but if you can get similar, then you're laughing.

First year on the E30 - 318 saloon - was about £250 fully comp in London. This year it's dropped to just over £200. (I think that's more to do with the car being a year older than the NCB.)

And you can find plenty of E30s on Ebay for under £2k. Four-doors especially. Not concours at that price, but in decent enough condition. I mean, I got lucky to buy mine for only £275, but add a grand to that and you get a reasonable selection. If not one of them, plenty of other options - first-gen MX-5s are just starting to be in the bracket. Wedge-MR2s, if you can find one without too much rust, are really, really cheap.

The cheapest quotes I get for classics tend to be less than a hundred quid a year - mainly for cars that are at least a bit older. There's quite a steep uplift as they go from about 25yo to 20yo, so a year or two can make quite a big difference between models.

If classic cover isn't an option, you should also consider that brand new cars are usually cheaper to insure. You might work out equal leasing something for a couple of years, because the payments are comparable to what you save on insurance, tax, maintenance, MOTs, and so-on.

It really depends what you need from a car. I'mg uessing that if you're talking about spending £2-3k a year on insurance, you're not worried about the cheapest possible car.

djmt1 > davedave1111 08/31/2014 at 12:27

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I'm 21.

My caveats include no night time driving, black box and 10000 mile limit.

My sister and my accounting degree put me off dealing with new cars you know the whole lose £5,000 out the showroom deal.

My budget for the car and insurance is £5,000.

davedave1111 > djmt1 08/31/2014 at 13:02

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Is the 10k mile limit a big problem for you? If you're doing that many miles then fuel economy will be pretty important in the TCO. Black box and no night-time driving are bullshit. Are you running quotes on the big comparison sites? First thing to do is to try something properly classic and see whether that gets in - then fiddle with the parameters until you work out what it is that's stopping you getting decent quotes on something more modern. If it's just age, you'll have trouble, but I'm sure I've heard of youngsters getting cheap classic cover without those sorts of riders.

I'm with you on the new car thing, but really it comes down to running the numbers and seeing what's cheaper. If a new car gets much cheaper insurance, cheap road tax, and better fuel economy - plus lower maintenance bills, no MOTs, etc etc - then it may actually work out cheaper to pay for the depreciation. For me, it's cheaper either to have a brand new car or a really old one, and everything in between is more expensive. I don't do many miles, though, which affects the calculation.

djmt1 > davedave1111 08/31/2014 at 13:15

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Pretty much age is my problem. So many cars are essentially blacklisted like I said £2,400 for a 1.2 Corsa. What I need to do is find the loopholes and oddities like with the S3. An 03 S3 has 15 hp more than the models up to 02 and because of this insurance is £1,100 more or the Type R which with its lack of Turbo is also £1,000 less than comparative hot hatches of the period.

I've been running numbers for months and decision time is closing in, thus why I asked about the insurance thing. I'm willing to take a hit in the first year if it comes down the following year as it is the most cost effective method for my situation. Otherwise I just have to save some more and pick a car that cost around £5,000 since quite a few of them have relatively cheap insurance (£1,000 or so) or continue hunting for a holy grail.

All in all getting a car sucks if you're a young male living in South East London.

davedave1111 > djmt1 08/31/2014 at 15:27

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Well, it's hard to get past the fact that getting a car at all as a young male driver anywhere in the UK is a bitch, and particularly here in London.

What the best thing to do is would be a personal decision based on your priorities. If your priority is having the fastest car possible for the most you can afford to spend, that's one thing. Personally, in your position, I'd be looking for the cheapest possible way to get through the next three or four years, because after that you'll be able to afford to insure something a bit more fun.

I just ran a couple of quotes, though, and got some interesting results. I guessed you've had your license for a year, but that doesn't make a lot of difference. Otherwise, I just changed the DOB to 1993, and left all my details in there - job, address, etc.

A mid seventies Triumph Spitfire came in on ordinary insurance, but looked relatively cheap as fully comp cover would go. That's only for 5k miles a year or something, but you didn't say how many you'll actually do. £1500-£2k, so roughly what you're looking at anyway, but not bad for a powerful RWD sportscar.

I also ran a few randoms to see if I could find cheap quotes from the same provider I use. If you go back to pretty much anything from the late sixties or early seventies, you ought to find insurance for £500-800 a year, fully comp. You'll have to have a play with the parameters, because there was a bit of difference - social only you could insure almost anything on CC cover, but with commuting and so-on added, plus 10k miles - (are you really doing that many?) - the nicer cars dropped out. A BMW 2002 was £800 for fully comp, 10k miles, social only, for example, but not for commuting.

djmt1 > davedave1111 08/31/2014 at 15:38

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I'm doing between 12,000 - 14,000 miles with a rough estimate.

I've had my licence for just over two years.

My current job is carer for the elderly.

I use a lockable garage.

Yet all of this is irrelevant because I live in Southwark which last time I checked was London's second highest rated risk location.

At the moment I am content to continue driving my bus pass but that will most likely come to an end. I do want to get as much bang for my buck though thus my focus on Hot Hatches and Super Estates.

davedave1111 > djmt1 08/31/2014 at 16:54

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12-15k is 250-300 miles a week. Are you driving for work? That's a whole different category of insurance anyway, not just commuting. If you're driving from site to site, but not paid for it, and they're not regular sites, that might not even count as commuting or work use, but you'd have to check with your insurers.

I'm amazed it's possible to do that many miles a year living in South London. At 10mph top speed, must take a while :)

If you don't need the car for work, probably your best bet is to get a classic and keep it until you have enough NCB to make a difference. I just checked, and this area is also in the top risk band, so if it works for me...

Saf1 > djmt1 09/07/2014 at 08:12

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I don't drive but when talking to people a few have recommended Octagon, they are based "overseas" so apparently they are cheaper for that reason. Also if you somehow haven't been reminded for the millionth time whilst watching the telly you can always Go Compare or moneysupermarket.com and save :P http://www.octagoninsurance.com/

EDIT - YEA I READ THIS BUT MY MIND READ SOMETHING ELSE irrelevant post!!